Author Topic: The Firm......original vs remake  (Read 268 times)

Guzman

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The Firm......original vs remake
« on: April 30, 2017, 10:33:31 PM »
I have seen both versions, and ive got to say that the 2009 remake seems like quite the watered down version of the original, and ill state my reasons why.  The only thing in my opinion that the remake has over the original, is that it isnt in 4:3 ratio.....thats it.

For a start the Becksy in the remake is not a patch on Gary Oldman as him in the original. The one in the remake just seems a prat.

I do think the original is more grittier than the remake.  The remake is too flamboyant and watered down.  If any of the 2 movies was going to deter you from ever joining a soccer hooligan firm....its the original lol.

The first time i watched the original in my early 20s, the scene where that guy gets his face deliberately slashed with a stanley knife or scalpal , actually sent chills down my spine.  The way he gets cornered in a horrible dark gritty secluded area all alone, gets his face slashed, then gets kicked in the family jewels, walks to the hospital alone and terrified, the way the policeman pretty much gloats over it, and then when Becksy visits him at home after it all on a rough london council flat estate.......the remake has nothing on it.

Also the scene where Becksy carelessly leaves his stanley knife around the child, and the child cuts its mouth on it, and his wife goes beserk on him.........she goes more mad on him in the original.   In the original, Gary Oldman actually took the face slaps for real, because they aint camera angled.  Its like the wife in the remake is less angry about what happend.

V8

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 01:09:34 PM »
Saw the remake recently, it's not a patch on the original, definitely lost some of the grit that made the original the film what it was, and the remake definitely has an inferior cast and misses someone with the acting skills of Oldman to lift it above mediocre.

Sven

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 03:45:21 PM »
Saw the remake recently, it's not a patch on the original, definitely lost some of the grit that made the original the film what it was, and the remake definitely has an inferior cast and misses someone with the acting skills of Oldman to lift it above mediocre.

Very true.

I tried to find the original to show my wife as she was not impressed much with the remake.
Very hard to find and I am sure I have only seen it on TV once.

V8

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 03:59:27 PM »
Very true.

I tried to find the original to show my wife as she was not impressed much with the remake.
Very hard to find and I am sure I have only seen it on TV once.

I couldn't find it either last I looked. I couldn't find ID either, which is another great football hoolie film.

Guzman

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 12:32:41 PM »
You can buy the original from Amazon.  It was released on Blu Ray last year aswell (but sadly still 4:3 ratio).   Its kind of funny how over the years, Gary Oldman went onto Hollywood and has done rather well, especially now a days getting to play his first non villain role as Commissioner Gordon in Batman.   Gary Oldman was put number 1 on Watch Mojo's top ten list of actors that could talk in another accent the best.  Apparently he now cant remember how he naturally talks.   Where as a big handfull of the other actors just went onto soap characters at best.  The guy who played Rodney Trotters friend Mickey from only fools and horses, has a small part in The Firm aswell.

But Gary Oldman does clearly stand out above the rest in both acting ability and screen presence.  Watch the 90s australian movie Romper Stomper, and Russel Crowe clearly stands out above the others.   

As for my opinion on ID.......good idea for a storyline and plot, but rather poor execution sadly.  The plot in ID is similar in the plot to the video game Sleeping Dogs.  One of the cast members from ID went on to play Billy Mitchel in eastenders, and the main star appeared in Coronation Street for a while.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 12:34:13 PM by Guzman »

V8

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 01:23:01 PM »
You can buy the original from Amazon.  It was released on Blu Ray last year aswell (but sadly still 4:3 ratio).

I don't but movies anymore. I have Amazon, Netflix and access to a decent site with a lot of movies to stream and The Firm is not on any of them, which is surprising for an old movie.

Quote
As for my opinion on ID.......good idea for a storyline and plot, but rather poor execution sadly.  The plot in ID is similar in the plot to the video game Sleeping Dogs.  One of the cast members from ID went on to play Billy Mitchel in eastenders, and the main star appeared in Coronation Street for a while.

Do you mean the plot for Sleeping Dogs is similar to ID, seeing as ID predates it by a good few years?

I thought it was well executed, for what was essentially a fairly obscure, low budget British movie. some great moments in there, and fairly authentic sounding dialogue, a quality a lot of similarly themed movies get very wrong (see Green Street). It was also one of the first of this type of movie, only The Firm predates it really and lot came in its' wake - Football Factory, Awaydays, etc. so it could be considered something of a trailblazer for a whole genre of movies too.

Each to their own though, it's still one of my favourites. 

Guzman

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 08:55:11 PM »
I don't buy movies anymore. I have Amazon, Netflix and access to a decent site with a lot of movies to stream and The Firm is not on any of them, which is surprising for an old movie.

Its dirt cheap to buy second hand though on DVD.  I bought my copy back in 2003 i think when i worked at blockbuster video, think i paid 5 or 6 for it tho.

Do you mean the plot for Sleeping Dogs is similar to ID, seeing as ID predates it by a good few years?

I did mean that yes.   I dont know whether the storyline writers for Sleeping Dogs took influence from ID's plot (probably not) but it is principally similar.  Weng is a cop, is sent undercover into the triads of hong kong, but while he is doing so he becomes too engulfed in that world, because he has a void in his own life......family bond.  The triads start to treat and welcome him like a family member and slowly develops a sense of loyalty towards them that in the end he starts to become one of them.

I thought it was well executed, for what was essentially a fairly obscure, low budget British movie. some great moments in there, and fairly authentic sounding dialogue, a quality a lot of similarly themed movies get very wrong (see Green Street). It was also one of the first of this type of movie, only The Firm predates it really and lot came in its' wake - Football Factory, Awaydays, etc. so it could be considered something of a trailblazer for a whole genre of movies too.

Some of the acting in ID is rather under par from some of its cast, the production quality is rather low key.  But i cannot fault ID for its storyline and plot.  The general plot is good and for its time rather original.  Theres some good angles in it aswell, like them pretending to be new trades workers in town, and they progressively earn the social bond and trust on the landlord and bar staff......all a means to an end to be able to get into the firm that that pub is the local to.  When one of them suspects he is an undercover cop, he makes a good spur of the moment move to disued them of that conviction, by accidentally on purpose fails to answer a question on a pub quiz machine that he was taking in turns to go on, and claimed he couldent read the question due to poor literaturacy skills. 

If that movie was made on a rich hollywood style budget, it would of done much much better.  The plot had the potential to make that happen.

Green Street glammed up the soccer hooligan world too much.  Charlie Humnams cockney accent was terrible.   Awaydays is possibly the worst soccer hooligan movie i have ever seen, and football factory is possibly second place best (The Firm being 1st).  Caz is alright aswell.


bababarararacucucudadada

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 09:51:31 PM »
FFS!

It is not "would of".

It is NEVER "would of" ever under any circumstances.

Guzman

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 09:58:34 PM »
FFS!

It is not "would of".

It is NEVER "would of" ever under any circumstances.

Are you just going to follow me around every post i make on here like a bad smell, grammar policing me??.  I decided to stop bickering with you in that other thread in the end because it was becoming unproductive.

Look, i am not writing out a job application form or something important like that where extra care needs to be made in spelling and grammar.  Where i would go to the trouble of writing "did not" instead of "didnt".  I am making casual written replies on a casual forum.   Stop being so dam anal about it.

bababarararacucucudadada

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2017, 10:15:47 PM »
Stop being so proud of your ignorance.

No I am not following you around. Not any more than anybody else on here anyway.

You keep typing it and I'll keep picking it up. Let's see who gets fed up first, eh?

You want me to stop? Then don't do it.

As for the wider point regarding Hoolie Movies... I've never watched one and I don't want to watch one.

I am somebody who has followed his team over move than 4 decades now. I have seen nearly every home game over that time and many away games the length and breadth of the country (and on one memorable occasion abroad).

The real world Hoolie Scene is a little bit too close to home. There's some really nasty people involved in it and many stupidly gullible people get drawn into it. There's a whole mentality involved which is, frankly, disturbing.

I've been on the terraces when a full scale ruck broke out; I've been in pubs when it all kicked off; I've been in a car trapped in the midst of a full on battle with nowhere to go; I've been chased around the city I call mine, and others, by people who would have kicked me to death if they got the chance; I've been to 2 games where a fan died (1 stabbed, 1 kicked to death); I was once yards from somebody who got his hamstrings Stanlied.

So it is a genre that does not appeal to me. I don't like it. Hence no comments about any of the films, any of the performances, plot similarities or anything else which is why I have not engaged on that level but while we are talking films have you ever seen The Karate Kid?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 10:18:10 PM by bababarararacucucudadada »

Guzman

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 10:32:59 AM »


No I am not following you around. Not any more than anybody else on here anyway.

Making a reply in a thread thats about a movie, just to attack my usage of grammar seems mighty petty to me



You keep typing it and I'll keep picking it up. Let's see who gets fed up first, eh?

I'll get highly fed up with you, thats for sure

As for the wider point regarding Hoolie Movies... I've never watched one and I don't want to watch one.   And everything else he said after that

Fair enough, thats your choice.   Alot of people dont wanna watch certain ilks of movies because of reasons like that.  Im lucky, ive never been around real soccer hooliganism before, not being into football has probably made that not happen.  Someone who grew up in the hoods of LA who witnessed a friend of theirs get shot in a drive by shooting aint going to want to watch a movie like Menace to Society or Boys in the Hood for example.


but while we are talking films have you ever seen The Karate Kid?

I have, what of it?

bababarararacucucudadada

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 10:37:03 AM »
What was the kid called?

bababarararacucucudadada

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 11:01:39 AM »
Doesn't matter what his name is.

[Kid turns up and asks the old dude to teach him kung fu.]

"Jacket on. Jacket off!" says the old dude.

[Kid slings jacket to one side.]

"Go home. Come back when you are ready."

[Kid turns up the next day.]

"Jacket on. Jacket off!" says the old dude.

[Slings jacket to one side.]

"Go home. Come back when you are ready."

[Repeat many times.]

"Jacket on. Jacket off!" says the old dude.

[Kid hangs jacket on hook.]

"We are ready."




Does it matter that the jacket gets hung on a hook? Yes. Very much so. You have to understand why for yourself.

Sven

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Re: The Firm......original vs remake
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2017, 01:01:09 PM »
Doesn't matter what his name is.

[Kid turns up and asks the old dude to teach him kung fu.]

"Jacket on. Jacket off!" says the old dude.

[Kid slings jacket to one side.]

"Go home. Come back when you are ready."

[Kid turns up the next day.]

"Jacket on. Jacket off!" says the old dude.

[Slings jacket to one side.]

"Go home. Come back when you are ready."

[Repeat many times.]

"Jacket on. Jacket off!" says the old dude.

[Kid hangs jacket on hook.]

"We are ready."




Does it matter that the jacket gets hung on a hook? Yes. Very much so. You have to understand why for yourself.

Daniel Laruso. Not sure of the spelling.

There is a compelling case that he is in fact the villain of the story and a bully.