Author Topic: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050  (Read 626 times)

Groper

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2017, 01:44:31 PM »
It amazes me that you bang on about this 24/7 when the world is close to nuclear war and biodiversity has more than halved in the last few decades.  Worry about the oil running out, rain forests  vanishing and desertification of farmland if I were you

That's another issue, totally irrelevant. No use trying to use that to shut this debate down.

This is an important debate that must be addressed.  As Trevor Phillips said, we are sleep walking into segregation.

It is NOT good for diversity, not good for immigration if one group is growing much faster than all others. 

Groper

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 01:50:53 PM »
Without the influence of traders and scientists and philosophers from what are now Muslim countries the world would have been very different.

Imagine the decimal number system never having been introduced, or any of the robust arithmetical methods they developed which were extended to algebra.

Or if nomads had never settled between the Tigris and Euphrates and established agriculture for us...

The whole planet, well our bit for sure, would be so far behind where it is now.

There'd've been no Renaissance, no industrial revolution, no British Empire. Britain's place as a global power would probably have been usurped by China - or possibly India.

Indian troops might have invaded the British Isles and subjugated the population for hundreds of years. Things like the Amritsar Massacre would have happened in, oh I don't know... Chesterfield and not India.

Indian cities would be dominated by pasty shops and places selling pie and mash; a roast beef dinner would be the subcontinent's favourite dish. India and Pakistan would compete at kabbadi for The Ashes.

Sorry about that. Much of it is absurd but, then again, you started it.

Over simplification.

Europe became powerful mainly because of the Renaissance, the enlightened period. 

What's the point of Algebra, decimal systems, new tech, if a culture is not enlightened enough to expand upon it.

bababarararacucucudadada

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 02:36:32 PM »
Nope you are wrong here

your claim was 'Imagine the decimal number system never having been introduced, or any of the robust arithmetical methods they developed which were extended to algebra.'

all things that did not require any input from 'muslims' as they already existed as your post confirms.

The zero was an idea that was bound to happen https://www.livescience.com/27853-who-invented-zero.html

Oh and the book is called 'Hidab al-jabr wal-muqubala' the author was 'Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khowarizmi'

Also most still will argue the Greeks are responsible

In the context where algebra is identified with the theory of equations, the Greek mathematician Diophantus has traditionally been known as the "father of algebra" but in more recent times there is much debate over whether al-Khwarizmi, who founded the discipline of al-jabr, deserves that title instead.

But here is a good read on the history of algebra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra

But my facts were in regard to Muslim employment stats something you seem keen to gloss over.

But no bad news as it seems you are not as 'correct' as you would like to think.

But again hardly relevant to the topic under discussion and more relevant to a thread 'what did some Muslims do a 1000 years ago'

Nic

You're missing the point in heroic fashion here.

It was muslim scholars that enabled the places to claim to have been ruined to exist at all.

No matter. You hate all things muslim. I get that. It comes across loud and clear.

tequila_nic

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 02:43:02 PM »
You're missing the point in heroic fashion here.

It was muslim scholars that enabled the places to claim to have been ruined to exist at all.

No matter. You hate all things muslim. I get that. It comes across loud and clear.


LOL I missed the point :)

Nothing still about poor employment levels for Muslims in the UK yet these are our 'future' :ROFL:


Nic

bababarararacucucudadada

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 02:48:16 PM »
Over simplification.

Europe became powerful mainly because of the Renaissance, the enlightened period. 

What's the point of Algebra, decimal systems, new tech, if a culture is not enlightened enough to expand upon it.

Of course it was over-simplified: this is a messageboard and I wasn't attempting to write some sort of dissertation or academic thesis.

The Renaissance was about art and culture. Absolutely.

Things weren't as rigidly defined then as they are now. Leonardo da Vinci, to pick but one, was just as much a scientist, engineer and philosopher as he was painter. Everything went hand in hand back then.

Which is probably why such startling progress was made so quickly. It was openness to external ideas and curiosity, just as much as it was religion, that drove everything. It is impossible to separate a stroke of LdV's paintbrush from the building of a bridge, or some such, in Venice because even if not directly obvious one thing informed the other - and vice versa

I completely agree that there is little point in algebra and number bases if there is not the wit, imagination and creativity to use them meaningfully but they did exactly that which was a massive part of the enlightenment you so rightly acclaim.

Groper

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 05:22:26 PM »
It was muslim scholars that enabled the places to claim to have been ruined to exist at all.

No matter. You hate all things muslim. I get that. It comes across loud and clear.

Are you trying to imply everything we have in Europe came from the Arabs? 

You are missing one big point here.  Europe was already quite advanced before Islam, and Christianity...  Hint the Romans, the Greeks... to name a few

If anything, the region was largely cultured by the Romans and the Greeks...

Groper

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 05:29:52 PM »
The Renaissance was about art and culture. Absolutely.


It was not just about art and culture.  It was an enlightenment.

I dont think you understand how important the enlightenment is.

It's the fact that now we have freedoms and equality unheard of.  That's why masses want to migrate here.

You have to ask, why so many in the Muslim world want to migrate to the West?

Alizarin

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 08:06:29 PM »
That's another issue, totally irrelevant. No use trying to use that to shut this debate down.

This is an important debate that must be addressed.  As Trevor Phillips said, we are sleep walking into segregation.

It is NOT good for diversity, not good for immigration if one group is growing much faster than all others.

Why must this 'debate' be addressed for the umpteenth time?  And by whom?  A load of non-Muslims on a forum full of non-Muslims?  It's a load of speculative bollocks for one thing and for that, it has very little worth except to the likes of perennial race/creed obsessives like Tec Nic.

You're right that they are obviously other issues and they are MASSIVE issues compared to this but it's those issues where the likes of Tec Nic aren't at all interested in any debate.  Therefore the 'debate' issues are the same race/religion shit every time.  The debate, such as it is, and how Tec Nic likes it is pissing around debating immigration 95% of the time and ignoring the real big threats to us and our descendents.  If anyone wants to take immigration off its debate pedestal the right wing cry 'you're trying to shut down our debate'.

Look at Trump, banging on about terrorism while ignoring American on American gun crime vastly dwarfs terrorism.

If sea levels rise as much as speculated, most of London will be in the sea and what exactly are 'debating' here that Muslim women don't tend to be in the labour market.  This at a time when it's speculated - again speculated - that AI will make massive inroads into the labour market.

Extrapolating from current trends so far into the future is a mug's game.

Alizarin

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 08:27:12 PM »
LOL I missed the point :)

Nothing still about poor employment levels for Muslims in the UK yet these are our 'future' :ROFL:


Nic

The report you linked to also mentioned that firms are practising institutionalised racism in recruitment.  So is it a Muslim job applicant's fault that they don't get a job while having equal qualifications and experience to the non-Muslim applicant?

You want to extrapolate to 2050, 34 years in the future?  That's a long long time.  The world population is projected to be 9.8 billion by 2050.  That's well over twice it was when you were born.   

A time when I expect you will be retired and part of an increasingly larger demographic of the "economically innactive".  Then there's AI and its speculated massive inroads into non-skilled and skilled roles. 

You better hope that if the AI revolution happens as speculated, your political wing aren't in charge or the 1% will clean up all the dividends while the indigenous working class you profess to champion are dying in the streets.  Hopefully by 2050 you'll have your time occupied by an Aryan sex robot that has been programmed to show an intense interest in high end hi-fi.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 08:53:29 PM by Alizarin »

Groper

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2017, 11:16:49 AM »
Why must this 'debate' be addressed for the umpteenth time?  And by whom?  A load of non-Muslims on a forum full of non-Muslims?  It's a load of speculative bollocks for one thing and for that, it has very little worth except to the likes of perennial race/creed obsessives like Tec Nic.

Because this has implications for future generations.  Numbers count!  This is what you don't get.

Immigration was meant to be about diversity.  Not about one group growing so fast that will have serious implications for future demographics.  It's pretty unfair to the local indigenous as well as other immigrant groups.

One day, this region could turn into the Balkans.

Return of the Mac

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2017, 12:13:55 PM »
Because this has implications for future generations.  Numbers count!  This is what you don't get.

Immigration was meant to be about diversity.  Not about one group growing so fast that will have serious implications for future demographics.  It's pretty unfair to the local indigenous as well as other immigrant groups.

One day, this region could turn into the Balkans.

Let's become Commies and ban all religions. 

Sir Rocis de Liver

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2017, 03:49:20 PM »
Unlike any other religion, Islam aspires to political domination.
That is the concern.
Simple, really.

Return of the Mac

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2017, 06:50:51 PM »
Unlike any other religion, Islam aspires to political domination.
That is the concern.
Simple, really.

Agreed. Esp the one who are not Muslims...we are doomed. Their way or we go to hell....Scary. I want Britain to remain liberal and Christian forever(not church going but what we have now).

Alizarin

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2017, 07:50:22 PM »
Because this has implications for future generations.  Numbers count!  This is what you don't get.

Immigration was meant to be about diversity.  Not about one group growing so fast that will have serious implications for future demographics.  It's pretty unfair to the local indigenous as well as other immigrant groups.

One day, this region could turn into the Balkans.

Immigration isn't 'about' diversity.  It's what you get because of immigration but immigration, in it's own economic sense, isn't about diversity. 


We don't let people into this country because they look a bit exotic we let them in because we want workers, they want a better life or are fleeing oppression.


Human Beings reproduce - it's what they do, or don't do, depending on nature/nurture pressures.  The reason why Germany has a lax immigration policy is because the Germany population is in decline and is ageing faster than our own, which creates its own economic pressures.

You say it's not 'fair' on the local indigenous.  Well, the local indigenous have sex organs, just the same, don't they? The local indigenous are too worried about their careers, getting on the housing ladder, paying off student loans and put off having kids or don't have them at all.

And look how our increasingly ageing local indigenous treats the local indigenous who do have kids!  They want to cut child benefits to two children so they can have a tax cut.  They sneer at 'baby factories', 'teen single mothers', "chavs with 8 kids by 8 dads".  Is it really surprising that the 'local indigenous' aren't reproducing and therefore necessitating immigration programs?

Additionally, you cannot just put immigration in some sort of box where other likely trends and pressures are totally ignored.

Like I wrote above, this forum is a mostly non-Muslim forum of white blokes 'debating immigration'.  A bit like a forum of corporate CEOs debating taxation or a forum of unemployed single mothers debating child care provision. 

If you want a fair debate rather than an echo chamber, this isn't the place for it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 10:57:34 PM by Alizarin »

Groper

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Re: Muslim population of UK set to triple by 2050
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2017, 11:37:48 PM »
Immigration isn't 'about' diversity.  It's what you get because of immigration but immigration, in it's own economic sense, isn't about diversity.

So all other groups shouldn't be worried about the changing demographics and the implications for future generations?