Author Topic: Glastonbury 2017  (Read 927 times)

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2017, 12:27:01 PM »

The irony is, he's also played Israel, in 2006, despite being asked not to. He chose to ignore those requests, just as Radiohead have chosen to ignore his request. He should respect their choice.

What does 'respect his choice' mean, exactly?
Accept they are allowed one?
Agree with it?

He does the former but not the latter. So what point were you making, exactly?
As to the point you make about him going to Israel in 2006, despite being asked not to. As soon as the requests not to go arrived he engaged with those asking him not to; unlike Thom Yorke.

Waters changed the place arranged for the gig to somewhere where he thought Palestinians might easily get to, too. So he went to Israel but also tried to ameliorate the situation for Palestinians from the initial point of complaint that he was going; unlike Yorke.

On that trip he discovered some of the reality and from that point he became an activist; he discovered that changing the site of the gig was useless in getting Palestinians to go to it; the restrictions on them even to travel were too onerous.

All this info is readily available if anyone were actually interested.

So he did not completely ignore their requests; unlike Yorke who simply refuses point blank to engage.


Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2017, 12:30:49 PM »
Quote
  Here's an interview with one of the support acts who sums it all up pretty well, showing that even some of those BDS claim they're campaigning for don't want sanctions, that they're counter-productive. And then you look at the people involved in BDS, as per Nic's link and they're a bunch of anti-Semite holocaust deniers. I'd have given them the fucking finger too.

Anybody who opposes Israel is automatically labelled an antisemite and preferably labelled a holocaust denier.

It is the shortest cut to deny them a voice.


Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2017, 12:37:43 PM »
Having done a bit of research into this, it would appear he's certainly notorious amongst the Jews.

What the fuck?  :ROFL:

He is notorious amongst those Jews who are supportive of all the repulsive stuff Israel does to the Palestinians.

To those Jews ( and non Jews) who oppose Israel's racial supremacism and oppression of the Palestinians he is a welcome member of that sterling bunch of the brave and moral.

The haaretz interview, with one of those Noble Jews and an Israeli one at that,  is old hat, from 2015.

There is a much more recent one dealing with this particular Thom Yorke issue, should anybody be  actually interested ::)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:17:30 PM by Visitor »

V8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1208
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2017, 12:38:39 PM »
Indeed, and I don't think Radiohead really need to worry about furthering their career. They're in a pretty good place and have been for years. I actually like Waters and share his concerns about the oppression of the Palestinains, but firstly I would say keep politics out of music, and also beware hipocrisies all round. I've noted the liberal support for any kind of boycott on Israel; actions that impact on the people, not the regime, but have also noted their opposition to boycotts or sanctions placed on other countries on the grounds that it hurts the people, not the regime. You can't have it both ways, and there are plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

Exactly. as I said above, Radiohead have their reasons for playing, and that it hurts the people, including Palestinians, as much as it hurts the government seems to be one of them. I think there is a place for politics in music, but there's a multitude of different ways to go about it. Radiohead aren't overly political, but there's politics in there which adds depth to the music (Hail to the Thief being an example) it's just not rammed down your throat the way some other bands do. It's subtle, which means people are less likely to switch off from it.

Quote
Also tragic that a thread on Glastonbury has descended into a slangfing match about a problem none of us really understand fully.

Well, you can blame barky for that ;)

I wouldn't say it's a slanging match though, just a discussion, although there's plenty of time for it to become abusive depending on who gets involved and how.

it does prompt a question though, for barky perhaps as he introduced this into the thread, do you only like bands with whom you share political or other viewpoints? Does not liking a band's politics mean you don't like their music? Do you only listen to bands with whom you agree with everything they say? Personally, it doesn't matter so much to me. I've recently finished reading The Man In Black, Johnny Cash's first autobiography, and it's chock full of Christianity, how his religion saved him, inspired his music, how he thinks god was sending him messages and saved him from his demons of drink and drugs, etc. Loads of viewpoints I disagree with, some of it I find absolute nonsense, but I'm no less of a Cash fan than I was when I started reading the book. I can separate his musical output from his viewpoint and beliefs that  I disagree with, even when a lot of his music is inspired by those views.

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2017, 12:40:06 PM »
What is next on Roger Water's tour dates........ oh yes Riyadh Saudi Arabia, then a few UAE states culminating in Pyongyang NK.

Sad bastard.

Has he got a new song? A twist on "sing if you are glad to be gay"?

Sing if you are glad to be:
A zionist right wing racist bastard
An mysogenist who likes to decapitate women in public
You fear being sent to a work camp by your fascist ruler.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I know waters is a cretin.

Are you just trying to crawl further up Tequila nic's arse?

V8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1208
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2017, 12:43:38 PM »
Anybody who opposes Israel is automatically labelled an antisemite and preferably labelled a holocaust denier.

It is the shortest cut to deny them a voice.

It doesn't mean that some of them aren't those things either though. And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there, for the same reasons. As Yorke said, he's played Israel several times under different governments, the same as he's played America under different governments, that doesn't mean he's supported all of them.

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2017, 12:45:27 PM »
Exactly, all the things he accuses Radiohead of, putting their career ahead of their morals, not caring about the oppressed, he's just as fucking guilty of if not more. Fucking rock stars and their pet projects. He should concentrate on his music and actually learning to sing rather than publicly bitching about other bands in open letters to the press.

Now we are getting to the heart of your opposition. :ROFL:

You object to Roger Waters; you like Radiohead.

The issue is not Palestine at all for you; you are indifferent to it or more likely support the Israelis.

It's fine; you are welcome to your position.

V8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1208
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2017, 12:51:17 PM »
What does 'respect his choice' mean, exactly?
Accept they are allowed one?
Agree with it?

He does the former but not the latter. So what point were you making, exactly?

I'm not sure he did the former. If he had, then he wouldn't have written an open letter having a go at them. He tried to strong arm them into not playing there with suich a move, that's not accepting they are allowed a choice.

Quote
As to the point you make about him going to Israel in 2006, despite being asked not to. As soon as the requests not to go arrived he engaged with those asking him not to; unlike Thom Yorke.

Waters changed the place arranged for the gig to somewhere where he thought Palestinians might easily get to, too. So he went to Israel but also tried to ameliorate the situation for Palestinians from the initial point of complaint that he was going; unlike Yorke.

On that trip he discovered some of the reality and from that point he became an activist; he discovered that changing the site of the gig was useless in getting Palestinians to go to it; the restrictions on them even to travel were too onerous.

All this info is readily available if anyone were actually interested.

I know it's available, I posted a link to the interview where he says all that, and replied to Bara giving some of the information and referencing the link I got it from.

Quote
So he did not completely ignore their requests; unlike Yorke who simply refuses point blank to engage.

He ignored their request by going to Israel to play after they'd asked him not to. Only once he got there did he have a change of heart about things, but he still went there. And then he went and played in other oppressive regimes after that too.

And why should Yorke engage with those people? Who are they to ask? Yorke is obviously aware of them and disagrees with their methods, so why would he want to give them his time?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 01:39:55 PM by V8 »

V8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1208
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2017, 12:56:34 PM »
Now we are getting to the heart of your opposition. :ROFL:

You object to Roger Waters; you like Radiohead.

I like Radiohead and Pink Floyd, 2 of my favourite bands, and it's only after looking into all this that I've formed the opinion on Waters that he's a fucking hypocrite, although my opinion on his singing was formed during the Live8 concert Pink Floyd reformed for, though it didn't diminish my admiration for them or love for their music..

Quote
The issue is not Palestine at all for you; you are indifferent to it or more likely support the Israelis.

Right on cue - "And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there"

Quote
It's fine; you are welcome to your position.

I know.

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2017, 12:58:05 PM »
It doesn't mean that some of them aren't those things either though.

Is Waters an an antisemite or a holocaust denier?

Why would anybody bring into this discussion this area of debate?

Oh you can discount BDS cos of holocaust deniers and antisemites.........stands to reason...... :ROFL:

Quote
  And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there, for the same reasons. As Yorke said, he's played Israel several times under different governments, the same as he's played America under different governments, that doesn't mean he's supported all of them.

You are not comparing like with like.

The Israeli government actively encourages these gigs for propaganda reasons and actively demonises those who protest them.

Supporting BDS in Israel is criminal, now. Supporting BDS is becoming illegal now in parts of the USA, too.

Going to a gig in the USA and in Israel are not comparable for a variety of reasons. That Thorne thinks this is a valid argument shows just what a pillowcase he is. Unsurprisingly you swallow it, too. :ROFL:

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2017, 12:59:22 PM »
Quote
  "And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there"

It is really really really simple.

Either you support the oppressor or you don't.

There is a clear choice.

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2017, 01:02:33 PM »
Quote
  Even the Germans have opposed BDS for Anti-semitism:

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-Chancellor-Merkels-party-labels-BDS-antisemitic-474715

And if anyone knows about anti-Semitism, it's the Germans.


Does nobody think this is really simple minded thinking like this and making judgements like this?

Laughable.

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2017, 01:06:22 PM »
I like Radiohead and Pink Floyd, 2 of my favourite bands, and it's only after looking into all this that I've formed the opinion on Waters that he's a fucking hypocrite, although my opinion on his singing was formed during the Live8 concert Pink Floyd reformed for, though it didn't diminish my admiration for them or love for their music..



I guess calling him a hypocrite is just a milder version of the same tactic as calling him an antisemite.

You can dismiss him and his views so very easily, justlikethat.

It is the 'Tommy Cooper' way of DISMISSING VIEWS WITHOUT ANY EFFORT.


Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2017, 01:18:29 PM »
Indeed, and I don't think Radiohead really need to worry about furthering their career. They're in a pretty good place and have been for years. I actually like Waters and share his concerns about the oppression of the Palestinains, but firstly I would say keep politics out of music, and also beware hipocrisies all round. I've noted the liberal support for any kind of boycott on Israel; actions that impact on the people, not the regime, but have also noted their opposition to boycotts or sanctions placed on other countries on the grounds that it hurts the people, not the regime. You can't have it both ways, and there are plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

Also tragic that a thread on Glastonbury has descended into a slangfing match about a problem none of us really understand fully.

Any excuse not to discuss Palestine. Not a suitable thread is a good one. :ROFL:

The people and the regime in Israel are one and the same; they all serve in the Army; they vote in these monsters. Active disobedience against the regime is lessening from a low point start.

All this info is available to those interested. ::)

Quote
   plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

And they might support BDS were it not illegal, now.

That really is a great Democracy isn't it? And the good ol Usa is following suit.

Trouble is you lot don't even follow what is going on much. And nobody much will inform you, either.

Quote
  about a problem none of us really understand fully.

FIND OUT.

Visitor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3453
  • Banned from posting for my post 44. Bizarre.
Re: Glastonbury 2017
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2017, 01:19:24 PM »
Quote
 
Exactly. as I said above, Radiohead have their reasons for playing, and that it hurts the people, including Palestinians, as much as it hurts the government seems to be one of them

How?