Random Banter

Slightly More Important => Music => Topic started by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 23, 2017, 11:37:05 PM

Title: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 23, 2017, 11:37:05 PM
Just accidentally caught some Margo Price in the nether reaches of the BBC's coverage.

Both types of music: country and western. With a bit of funk, southern boogie and psychedelia.

Never heard of her before but she has my seal of approval.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 24, 2017, 12:29:20 AM
The Flaming Lips!

That hamster ball gizmo is brilliant!
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: New World on June 24, 2017, 07:38:46 AM
Radiohead were incredible. Live, they are beyond rock music. I know some people don't get it, and that's a real shame.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 24, 2017, 10:02:17 AM
I'm one of them.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: New World on June 24, 2017, 10:43:10 AM
I'm one of them.

You're one of many! Never has a band polarised opinion so much. I see that as a positive thing in itself.

People dismiss them as miserable. I would say they are 'dark' but miserable doesn't really describe them IMO. In the same way, I never understood people saying the Smiths were miserable when in fact most of their tunes were somewhat jaunty, and the lyrics rather funny...if you have a dark sense of humour.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 24, 2017, 12:37:40 PM
I don't mind dark at all. Never happier than when immersing myself in Nick Cave's world... In many ways they are an ideal headliner: those who like 'em love 'em and for those who don't there's lots of other stages. I'd've been off watching the Flaming Lips had I been there hoping that many 1000s of others had hit the Pyramid for Radiohead.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: barky on June 24, 2017, 04:06:20 PM
Radiohead were incredible. Live, they are beyond rock music. I know some people don't get it, and that's a real shame.
post 'the bends' they are to me just weird artpop & painful
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Return of the Mac on June 24, 2017, 10:07:46 PM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6uzzZr_O8E#)

Jezzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Proud to be a Corbynista !!!
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 25, 2017, 07:44:48 PM
Barry Gibb was pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Return of the Mac on June 25, 2017, 10:20:18 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister-trident-michael-eavis_uk_59500b88e4b02734df2b25ad (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister-trident-michael-eavis_uk_59500b88e4b02734df2b25ad)

Trident....yes...should go...at least then, our government will behave in a civilised manner than following the law of the jungle.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on June 26, 2017, 12:47:47 AM
This is what it is all about. Utterly bonkers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p056bfgp/glastonbury-2017-the-flaming-lips#group=p056kg71 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p056bfgp/glastonbury-2017-the-flaming-lips#group=p056kg71)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: New World on June 27, 2017, 10:38:33 AM
post 'the bends' they are to me just weird artpop & painful

The Bends is brilliant, but OK Computer is pure genius, beyond that they had moments of brilliance and some moments of 'WTF?' But live I think they are mesmorising. I'm a prog rock fanatic, so I love the 'artrock' element.

Are you going to see Nick Cave later this year? I was going with a friend, but can't make the O2 show. That's the wrong sort of venue for him IMO. The first time I saw him was at the Reading festival back in the 80's. I've never forgotten that show.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: New World on June 27, 2017, 10:40:28 AM
Foo Fighters were also exellent. A good and obvious choice of headliner.

As much as Ed Sheeran means nothing to me, I thought he done well out there on his own on that huge stage. A confident performance. Barry Gibb, I struggle to take seriously tbh. Chic were pretty good though.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on July 14, 2017, 10:52:34 AM
Radiohead were incredible. Live, they are beyond rock music. I know some people don't get it, and that's a real shame.

Amazing set by Radiohead at Glastonbury this year. Saw so many complaints on fb about it, people claiming to be fans but complaining that they didn't play a greatest hits set. to me, that's what it was, the whole set worked really well, sounded fantastic, just a fantastic selection of songs to play and despite the miserable tag, they looked like they were really enjoying themselves up there, Thom was on good form engaging and chatting with the audience, just perfect all round.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on July 14, 2017, 10:58:59 AM
The Bends is brilliant, but OK Computer is pure genius, beyond that they had moments of brilliance and some moments of 'WTF?' But live I think they are mesmorising. I'm a prog rock fanatic, so I love the 'artrock' element.

Agree about OK Computer, but I love all of their more recent stuff too and find myself listening to those more than OK Computer. Their latest album is just amazing, with each of the members showing what they've been up to between albums, especially Greenwood's classical composer work. I love that each album they do is different from the last, that they innovate and surprise every time.  And then it all comes together live to fantastic effect drawing on one of the best, most varied back catalogues in the business.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: barky on July 14, 2017, 02:23:50 PM
Thom Yorke's reaction to pro-palestinian supporters makes whole band down ... referring to them as "some fucking people" over & over + giving them the middle finger at same time .... and band happily playing in Israel too ... fuck em
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on July 14, 2017, 02:31:40 PM
Thom Yorke's reaction to pro-palestinian supporters makes whole band down ... referring to them as "some fucking people" over & over + giving them the middle finger at same time .... and band happily playing in Israel too ... fuck em

When was this Barky?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 02, 2017, 11:07:04 AM
V8, did you ever bother to find out?

barky, I am disappointed you did not reply  to V8 and take the opportunity to give him some info on this particular case and BDS and all the cases of the pro Israelis trying to prevent pro Palestinian artists from just playing.


There has been a concerted effort against Roger Waters....even having a film 'Wish you weren't here' doing the rounds....... trying to ban him in New York, even.....and now upping the efforts against Gilad Atzmon.


V8 might listen to you.


Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: barky on August 02, 2017, 06:13:01 PM
V8, did you ever bother to find out?

barky, I am disappointed you did not reply  to V8 and take the opportunity to give him some info on this particular case and BDS and all the cases of the pro Israelis trying to prevent pro Palestinian artists from just playing.


There has been a concerted effort against Roger Waters....even having a film 'Wish you weren't here' doing the rounds....... trying to ban him in New York, even.....and now upping the efforts against Gilad Atzmon.


V8 might listen to you.



forgot I'd posted that here! https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/07/palestinian-activists-disrupt-radiohead-concert-in-scotland/ (https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/07/palestinian-activists-disrupt-radiohead-concert-in-scotland/)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on August 09, 2017, 10:51:59 AM
When was this Barky?

You can see why he would say this given 'the people' who are 'protesting,.

https://ukmediawatch.org/2017/07/12/scottish-bds-activists-who-protest-radiohead-also-promote-holocaust-denial/

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: New World on August 09, 2017, 11:10:46 AM
Agree about OK Computer, but I love all of their more recent stuff too and find myself listening to those more than OK Computer. Their latest album is just amazing, with each of the members showing what they've been up to between albums, especially Greenwood's classical composer work. I love that each album they do is different from the last, that they innovate and surprise every time.  And then it all comes together live to fantastic effect drawing on one of the best, most varied back catalogues in the business.

Agree. The latest album is excellent, as was In Rainbows.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 09, 2017, 04:25:32 PM
forgot I'd posted that here! [url]https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/07/palestinian-activists-disrupt-radiohead-concert-in-scotland/[/url] ([url]https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/07/palestinian-activists-disrupt-radiohead-concert-in-scotland/[/url])


Thanks. I did look into it a little at the time, and from what I can gather, Thom Yorke and the rest of Radiohead simply do not "agree with the cultural ban at all". That is there prerogative, and he has his reasons. The gig they played in Israel had a Jewish-Arabic support band, and Johnny Greenwood is even married to an Arab Jew, so the main objection seems to be to the open letter Waters et al posted, which seemed to be assuming Radiohead are somehow unaware and made their decision out of ignorance. As Yorke said, "playing in a country isn't the same as endorsing its government".

Here's an interview with one of the support acts who sums it all up pretty well, showing that even some of those BDS claim they're campaigning for don't want sanctions, that they're counter-productive. And then you look at the people involved in BDS, as per Nic's link and they're a bunch of anti-Semite holocaust deniers. I'd have given them the fucking finger too.

Arab-Israeli singer Nasreen Qadri on Tuesday blasted supporters of the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement for urging Radiohead to cancel its concert in Tel Aviv, which is scheduled for Wednesday.

Dozens of artists, including notorious anti-Israel activist Roger Waters, sent a letter to Radiohead urging the band to cancel its Tel Aviv concert in order to “pressure Israel to end its violation of basic rights and international law.”

Thom Yorke, the band’s frontman, later fired back at the boycott calls, calling them “an extraordinary waste of energy”.

Qadri, who will share the stage with Radiohead at Wednesday’s concert, wrote in an op-ed for Newsweek on Tuesday that calls for the band to boycott Israel are “counter-productive and only hurting those who wish to promote peace and tolerance in a troubled region.”

“This approach is hurting me. I am a Muslim Arab woman. I am a singer. And this Wednesday, I will share the stage with Radiohead in their concert,” she added.

“I was born in Haifa and grew up in Lod—two cities with a mix of Arab and Jewish communities, living side by side. It wasn’t always easy, but my personal experience has taught me that open dialogue is the only way to overcome our differences. Ever since I won a singing competition on Israeli TV, my music and my story have inspired many in Israel to open their minds and hearts to Arabic music and my people's culture,” continued Qadri.

“I have dedicated my life to music, and dedicated my music to breaking down borders and bringing people closer together. That is why this past year I did what no other Arab-Israeli has done before, and sang in Israel's official Independence and Memorial Day ceremonies.”

Noting that Yorke had pointed out that “playing in a country isn't the same as endorsing its government," Qadri added, “I believe that it has everything to do with endorsing its people, and using music to engage with them. After all, if we don’t engage one another, and work together, we will never find peace between us.”


“This Wednesday, I will also perform alongside one of Israel's most talented artists, Dudu Tassa—a Jewish singer—to bring a message of co-existence to every corner of the country. The two of us were fortunate enough to be invited by Thom Yorke to tour with Radiohead across the U.S. earlier this year,” she wrote.

“I must admit, I had never heard of Radiohead before receiving Yorke’s invitation, but that tour changed my life and was one of the peaks of my career. A peak I am looking forward to ascending again this week when I share the stage with Radiohead in front of a sold out crowd in Tel Aviv.”

“An Arabic proverb says ‘music is the nutrition of the spirit.’ Music feeds people’s spirits and opens them up. Music builds bridges and this is exactly what I am hoping to achieve through this concert,” she stressed.

“Those who call for boycott are only trying to divide us. They are trying to shut down the music. I will not be a part of that. Sadly, there are too many countries in the Middle East in which such a concert could have never taken place,” wrote Qadri, who added, “I was lucky to be born in Israel, and I am grateful for the opportunity to build bridges of understanding.”

Radiohead is one of many artists that have in recent years been targeted by BDS activists and pressured to cancel shows in Israel.

Many musicians have ignored the calls and went ahead with performances in Israel, such as popular rhythm and blues artist Alicia Keys and pop duo Pet Shop Boys.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/232667 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/232667)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on August 09, 2017, 05:37:42 PM
It's difficult to take anything seriously that includes the words "notorious anti-Israel activist Roger Waters".

Balanced? Objective? Hardly.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 10, 2017, 02:51:16 PM
It's difficult to take anything seriously that includes the words "notorious anti-Israel activist Roger Waters".

Balanced? Objective? Hardly.


Which part of it do you object to? Notorious? Anti-Israel? Activist?

He's involved with BDS, and they are a very questionable organisation , with spikes in antisemitism wherever they go:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39719314 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39719314)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bds-is-continuing-to-spread-hate-and-anti-semitism_us_592dab59e4b075342b52c080 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bds-is-continuing-to-spread-hate-and-anti-semitism_us_592dab59e4b075342b52c080)

Even the Germans have opposed BDS for Anti-semitism:

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-Chancellor-Merkels-party-labels-BDS-antisemitic-474715 (http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-Chancellor-Merkels-party-labels-BDS-antisemitic-474715)

And if anyone knows about anti-Semitism, it's the Germans.

I've just read an interview with Waters which is quite relevant, this part in particular:

Quote
"What about those artists who come to Israel to perform and say, “Let’s separate music from politics”?

“They’re not actually saying, ‘Let’s separate politics from music.’ They’re actually saying, ‘I care more about my work and career than I care about these oppressed people. I’m very happy to care about the oppressed people, but not to the point where I’ll let it interfere with my career.’ That’s what they’re saying. So they’re showing themselves to be people who actually don’t care. They have no care for what’s going on in Gaza.”


http://www.haaretz.com/news/1.668705 (http://www.haaretz.com/news/1.668705)

And yet, recent world tours by Waters have played in China and UAE, both oppressive regimes that disregard human rights when it suits them, so was he putting his career first there? Did he think he could change things by going to those countries, or does he just not care about those oppressed people?

From the same interview:

Quote
What about those who say, “I’ll go and play there, and I’ll try to convince the Israelis”?

“I can look them in the eye and say, ‘You’re on a false errand, that’s not going to happen. You’re not going to change the minds of the people in the Knesset and get them to behave in a legal, proper and humane way toward the occupied Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.’ It will not work. It doesn’t work. It didn’t help the situation in South Africa back in the 1980s and ‘90s with Rod Stewart and Elton John and Dionne Warwick, and whoever the few others were – there were very few of them – like Queen, going and playing in Sun City.


The irony is, he's also played Israel, in 2006, despite being asked not to. He chose to ignore those requests, just as Radiohead have chosen to ignore his request. He should respect their choice.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on August 10, 2017, 08:40:14 PM
"Notorious" is the bit I would question. I don't think he's notorious in any way at all.

Why Israel and not other places? You'd have to ask him but I do know he travelled around the area before he was famous for being a Floydy so perhaps it has something to do with that?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Q13.1 on August 11, 2017, 02:22:18 AM
What is next on Roger Water's tour dates........ oh yes Riyadh Saudi Arabia, then a few UAE states culminating in Pyongyang NK.

Sad bastard.

Has he got a new song? A twist on "sing if you are glad to be gay"?

Sing if you are glad to be:
A zionist right wing racist bastard
An mysogenist who likes to decapitate women in public
You fear being sent to a work camp by your fascist ruler.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I know waters is a cretin.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 09:39:38 AM
"Notorious" is the bit I would question. I don't think he's notorious in any way at all.

Having done a bit of research into this, it would appear he's certainly notorious amongst the Jews. He's been involved with BDS for quite a long time.

Quote
Why Israel and not other places? You'd have to ask him but I do know he travelled around the area before he was famous for being a Floydy so perhaps it has something to do with that?

he gives a reason in the interview I linked to, it's because he played Israel and found out what it was like there, yet he'd seek to deny other bands a similar "road to Damascus" moment by going there and seeing for themselves. In his case, he says he played there despite calls not to out of ignorance, so now he assumes all other's who choose to play there are like him, ignorant, or putting theri careers above their morals, like he did, but in Radiohead's case they are an informed band making an informed choice.

I mentioned the other countries he's played in to highlight his hypocrisy on this matter.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 09:42:48 AM
What is next on Roger Water's tour dates........ oh yes Riyadh Saudi Arabia, then a few UAE states culminating in Pyongyang NK.

Sad bastard.

Has he got a new song? A twist on "sing if you are glad to be gay"?

Sing if you are glad to be:
A zionist right wing racist bastard
An mysogenist who likes to decapitate women in public
You fear being sent to a work camp by your fascist ruler.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I know waters is a cretin.

Exactly, all the things he accuses Radiohead of, putting their career ahead of their morals, not caring about the oppressed, he's just as fucking guilty of if not more. Fucking rock stars and their pet projects. He should concentrate on his music and actually learning to sing rather than publicly bitching about other bands in open letters to the press.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: New World on August 11, 2017, 10:40:36 AM
Exactly, all the things he accuses Radiohead of, putting their career ahead of their morals, not caring about the oppressed, he's just as fucking guilty of if not more. Fucking rock stars and their pet projects. He should concentrate on his music and actually learning to sing rather than publicly bitching about other bands in open letters to the press.

Indeed, and I don't think Radiohead really need to worry about furthering their career. They're in a pretty good place and have been for years. I actually like Waters and share his concerns about the oppression of the Palestinains, but firstly I would say keep politics out of music, and also beware hipocrisies all round. I've noted the liberal support for any kind of boycott on Israel; actions that impact on the people, not the regime, but have also noted their opposition to boycotts or sanctions placed on other countries on the grounds that it hurts the people, not the regime. You can't have it both ways, and there are plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

Also tragic that a thread on Glastonbury has descended into a slangfing match about a problem none of us really understand fully.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: bababarararacucucudadada on August 11, 2017, 10:47:45 AM
I don't see how you can keep politics out of music nor why you would want to.

In fact the decision to be musically apolitical is a poitical one in itself...

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRrSwLHyxGc#)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:27:01 PM

The irony is, he's also played Israel, in 2006, despite being asked not to. He chose to ignore those requests, just as Radiohead have chosen to ignore his request. He should respect their choice.

What does 'respect his choice' mean, exactly?
Accept they are allowed one?
Agree with it?

He does the former but not the latter. So what point were you making, exactly?
As to the point you make about him going to Israel in 2006, despite being asked not to. As soon as the requests not to go arrived he engaged with those asking him not to; unlike Thom Yorke.

Waters changed the place arranged for the gig to somewhere where he thought Palestinians might easily get to, too. So he went to Israel but also tried to ameliorate the situation for Palestinians from the initial point of complaint that he was going; unlike Yorke.

On that trip he discovered some of the reality and from that point he became an activist; he discovered that changing the site of the gig was useless in getting Palestinians to go to it; the restrictions on them even to travel were too onerous.

All this info is readily available if anyone were actually interested.

So he did not completely ignore their requests; unlike Yorke who simply refuses point blank to engage.

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:30:49 PM
Quote
  Here's an interview with one of the support acts who sums it all up pretty well, showing that even some of those BDS claim they're campaigning for don't want sanctions, that they're counter-productive. And then you look at the people involved in BDS, as per Nic's link and they're a bunch of anti-Semite holocaust deniers. I'd have given them the fucking finger too.

Anybody who opposes Israel is automatically labelled an antisemite and preferably labelled a holocaust denier.

It is the shortest cut to deny them a voice.

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:37:43 PM
Having done a bit of research into this, it would appear he's certainly notorious amongst the Jews.

What the fuck?  :ROFL:

He is notorious amongst those Jews who are supportive of all the repulsive stuff Israel does to the Palestinians.

To those Jews ( and non Jews) who oppose Israel's racial supremacism and oppression of the Palestinians he is a welcome member of that sterling bunch of the brave and moral.

The haaretz interview, with one of those Noble Jews and an Israeli one at that,  is old hat, from 2015.

There is a much more recent one dealing with this particular Thom Yorke issue, should anybody be  actually interested ::)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 12:38:39 PM
Indeed, and I don't think Radiohead really need to worry about furthering their career. They're in a pretty good place and have been for years. I actually like Waters and share his concerns about the oppression of the Palestinains, but firstly I would say keep politics out of music, and also beware hipocrisies all round. I've noted the liberal support for any kind of boycott on Israel; actions that impact on the people, not the regime, but have also noted their opposition to boycotts or sanctions placed on other countries on the grounds that it hurts the people, not the regime. You can't have it both ways, and there are plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

Exactly. as I said above, Radiohead have their reasons for playing, and that it hurts the people, including Palestinians, as much as it hurts the government seems to be one of them. I think there is a place for politics in music, but there's a multitude of different ways to go about it. Radiohead aren't overly political, but there's politics in there which adds depth to the music (Hail to the Thief being an example) it's just not rammed down your throat the way some other bands do. It's subtle, which means people are less likely to switch off from it.

Quote
Also tragic that a thread on Glastonbury has descended into a slangfing match about a problem none of us really understand fully.

Well, you can blame barky for that ;)

I wouldn't say it's a slanging match though, just a discussion, although there's plenty of time for it to become abusive depending on who gets involved and how.

it does prompt a question though, for barky perhaps as he introduced this into the thread, do you only like bands with whom you share political or other viewpoints? Does not liking a band's politics mean you don't like their music? Do you only listen to bands with whom you agree with everything they say? Personally, it doesn't matter so much to me. I've recently finished reading The Man In Black, Johnny Cash's first autobiography, and it's chock full of Christianity, how his religion saved him, inspired his music, how he thinks god was sending him messages and saved him from his demons of drink and drugs, etc. Loads of viewpoints I disagree with, some of it I find absolute nonsense, but I'm no less of a Cash fan than I was when I started reading the book. I can separate his musical output from his viewpoint and beliefs that  I disagree with, even when a lot of his music is inspired by those views.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:40:06 PM
What is next on Roger Water's tour dates........ oh yes Riyadh Saudi Arabia, then a few UAE states culminating in Pyongyang NK.

Sad bastard.

Has he got a new song? A twist on "sing if you are glad to be gay"?

Sing if you are glad to be:
A zionist right wing racist bastard
An mysogenist who likes to decapitate women in public
You fear being sent to a work camp by your fascist ruler.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I know waters is a cretin.

Are you just trying to crawl further up Tequila nic's arse?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 12:43:38 PM
Anybody who opposes Israel is automatically labelled an antisemite and preferably labelled a holocaust denier.

It is the shortest cut to deny them a voice.

It doesn't mean that some of them aren't those things either though. And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there, for the same reasons. As Yorke said, he's played Israel several times under different governments, the same as he's played America under different governments, that doesn't mean he's supported all of them.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
Exactly, all the things he accuses Radiohead of, putting their career ahead of their morals, not caring about the oppressed, he's just as fucking guilty of if not more. Fucking rock stars and their pet projects. He should concentrate on his music and actually learning to sing rather than publicly bitching about other bands in open letters to the press.

Now we are getting to the heart of your opposition. :ROFL:

You object to Roger Waters; you like Radiohead.

The issue is not Palestine at all for you; you are indifferent to it or more likely support the Israelis.

It's fine; you are welcome to your position.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 12:51:17 PM
What does 'respect his choice' mean, exactly?
Accept they are allowed one?
Agree with it?

He does the former but not the latter. So what point were you making, exactly?

I'm not sure he did the former. If he had, then he wouldn't have written an open letter having a go at them. He tried to strong arm them into not playing there with suich a move, that's not accepting they are allowed a choice.

Quote
As to the point you make about him going to Israel in 2006, despite being asked not to. As soon as the requests not to go arrived he engaged with those asking him not to; unlike Thom Yorke.

Waters changed the place arranged for the gig to somewhere where he thought Palestinians might easily get to, too. So he went to Israel but also tried to ameliorate the situation for Palestinians from the initial point of complaint that he was going; unlike Yorke.

On that trip he discovered some of the reality and from that point he became an activist; he discovered that changing the site of the gig was useless in getting Palestinians to go to it; the restrictions on them even to travel were too onerous.

All this info is readily available if anyone were actually interested.

I know it's available, I posted a link to the interview where he says all that, and replied to Bara giving some of the information and referencing the link I got it from.

Quote
So he did not completely ignore their requests; unlike Yorke who simply refuses point blank to engage.

He ignored their request by going to Israel to play after they'd asked him not to. Only once he got there did he have a change of heart about things, but he still went there. And then he went and played in other oppressive regimes after that too.

And why should Yorke engage with those people? Who are they to ask? Yorke is obviously aware of them and disagrees with their methods, so why would he want to give them his time?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 12:56:34 PM
Now we are getting to the heart of your opposition. :ROFL:

You object to Roger Waters; you like Radiohead.

I like Radiohead and Pink Floyd, 2 of my favourite bands, and it's only after looking into all this that I've formed the opinion on Waters that he's a fucking hypocrite, although my opinion on his singing was formed during the Live8 concert Pink Floyd reformed for, though it didn't diminish my admiration for them or love for their music..

Quote
The issue is not Palestine at all for you; you are indifferent to it or more likely support the Israelis.

Right on cue - "And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there"

Quote
It's fine; you are welcome to your position.

I know.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:58:05 PM
It doesn't mean that some of them aren't those things either though.

Is Waters an an antisemite or a holocaust denier?

Why would anybody bring into this discussion this area of debate?

Oh you can discount BDS cos of holocaust deniers and antisemites.........stands to reason...... :ROFL:

Quote
  And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there, for the same reasons. As Yorke said, he's played Israel several times under different governments, the same as he's played America under different governments, that doesn't mean he's supported all of them.

You are not comparing like with like.

The Israeli government actively encourages these gigs for propaganda reasons and actively demonises those who protest them.

Supporting BDS in Israel is criminal, now. Supporting BDS is becoming illegal now in parts of the USA, too.

Going to a gig in the USA and in Israel are not comparable for a variety of reasons. That Thorne thinks this is a valid argument shows just what a pillowcase he is. Unsurprisingly you swallow it, too. :ROFL:
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 12:59:22 PM
Quote
  "And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there"

It is really really really simple.

Either you support the oppressor or you don't.

There is a clear choice.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:02:33 PM
Quote
  Even the Germans have opposed BDS for Anti-semitism:

[url]http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-Chancellor-Merkels-party-labels-BDS-antisemitic-474715[/url] ([url]http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-Chancellor-Merkels-party-labels-BDS-antisemitic-474715[/url])

And if anyone knows about anti-Semitism, it's the Germans.


Does nobody think this is really simple minded thinking like this and making judgements like this?

Laughable.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:06:22 PM
I like Radiohead and Pink Floyd, 2 of my favourite bands, and it's only after looking into all this that I've formed the opinion on Waters that he's a fucking hypocrite, although my opinion on his singing was formed during the Live8 concert Pink Floyd reformed for, though it didn't diminish my admiration for them or love for their music..



I guess calling him a hypocrite is just a milder version of the same tactic as calling him an antisemite.

You can dismiss him and his views so very easily, justlikethat.

It is the 'Tommy Cooper' way of DISMISSING VIEWS WITHOUT ANY EFFORT.

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:18:29 PM
Indeed, and I don't think Radiohead really need to worry about furthering their career. They're in a pretty good place and have been for years. I actually like Waters and share his concerns about the oppression of the Palestinains, but firstly I would say keep politics out of music, and also beware hipocrisies all round. I've noted the liberal support for any kind of boycott on Israel; actions that impact on the people, not the regime, but have also noted their opposition to boycotts or sanctions placed on other countries on the grounds that it hurts the people, not the regime. You can't have it both ways, and there are plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

Also tragic that a thread on Glastonbury has descended into a slangfing match about a problem none of us really understand fully.

Any excuse not to discuss Palestine. Not a suitable thread is a good one. :ROFL:

The people and the regime in Israel are one and the same; they all serve in the Army; they vote in these monsters. Active disobedience against the regime is lessening from a low point start.

All this info is available to those interested. ::)

Quote
   plenty of Israeli Jews who strongly oppose their governments policies.

And they might support BDS were it not illegal, now.

That really is a great Democracy isn't it? And the good ol Usa is following suit.

Trouble is you lot don't even follow what is going on much. And nobody much will inform you, either.

Quote
  about a problem none of us really understand fully.

FIND OUT.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:19:24 PM
Quote
 
Exactly. as I said above, Radiohead have their reasons for playing, and that it hurts the people, including Palestinians, as much as it hurts the government seems to be one of them

How?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
The issue is not Thom Yorke or Roger Waters.



You can choose to either entertain Israeli apartheid regardless of the appeals from the colonised and brutalised Palestinians, or to be on the right side of history, refusing to be used to prolong injustice and colonial oppression. You cannot choose both.



It's never too late to come round to the right side of history.






(https://bdsmovement.net/sites/default/files/palestinian-wall-flag.jpg)

Quote
  Dear Thom Yorke,

We are Palestinian artists and we write to ask just one thing, as many others have asked, that you respect the wishes of the absolute majority of Palestinian civil society and do not cross the picket line we have clearly marked.

Our call to boycott came in response to decades of Israel's human rights violations, its apartheid policies, ongoing ethnic cleansing, home demolitions, the denial of refugee rights, the 10-year siege of Gaza and the illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank. Israel’s regime subjects us to fragmentation, to occupation, and settler-colonialism.

As Palestinian artists our freedoms of assembly and of expression, as well as our other human rights, are severely limited by Israel’s regime. We are forced to wait for hours at one of the many military checkpoints dissecting the occupied West Bank, unable to travel to rehearsals and performances, let alone international engagements. In Gaza, we are held under a decade-long siege, a blockade designed to keep us “on a diet”.

Generations of Palestinian families remain refugees from the Nakba, “catastrophe”, when in 1948, through a planned campaign of ethnic cleansing, Palestinians were removed from Palestine. Which brings us to the concert you have scheduled on the ruins of a Palestinian village, Jarisha. Most Palestinians could not attend your show of course, trapped within the brutal machine of Israel’s occupation, and living in refugee camps outside of historic Palestine, still denied entry to their homeland through Israel’s racist laws, which prevent us from exercising our fundamental right to return.

It's not proving possible for you to preserve your status as a politically progressive band and continue to be used by the Israeli government in this way. The state of Israel’s official social media channels have endorsed your very words that dismissed our calls on you to engage with us. Perhaps you intend to say something from the stage in Tel Aviv, although you may not again refer to “some fucking people”. But it is your very presence that is the endorsement of the regime’s clear policy of whitewashing its crimes against Palestinians through cultural means. No matter what you say, you cannot change the fact that you will have chosen to reject dialogue with Palestinians, who called on you to cancel.

Simply stating you do not endorse Netanyahu does not change that the Israeli government will use, and is already using, your performance and status for specific political ends, that is: diverting from its crimes against Palestinians. As Israeli foreign ministry official Nissim Ben-Sheetrit said in 2005: "We see culture as a hasbara [propaganda] tool of the first rank, and I do not differentiate between hasbara and culture". Your performance and others like it are crucial to the ‘Brand Israel’ programme. As the Jerusalem Post wrote last week, your comments have been some of the ”best hasbara Israel has received lately”.

Just as all progressive artists boycotted Sun City in apartheid South Africa, Palestinians have called on you to boycott Tel Aviv, asking that you refuse to participate in beautifying the regime of occupation and apartheid that exists and that denies Palestinians our inalienable rights. That you have so far entirely and consciously ignored the voices of the absolute majority of Palestinian society, including almost all prominent artists, who have called for a cultural boycott of Israel, is disheartening Thom, but it is never too late.

You can choose to either entertain Israeli apartheid regardless of the appeals from the colonised and brutalised Palestinians, or to be on the right side of history, refusing to be used to prolong injustice and colonial oppression. You cannot choose both.

It's never too late to come round to the right side of history.

Signed,

Salim Abu Jamal, producer and director

Raed Andoni, director

Asma'a Azaizeh, poet

Mohammad Bakri, actor and director

Saleh Bakri, actor

Ziad Bakri, actor and filmmaker

Samir Eskanda, musician

Mahdi Fleifel, director

Annemarie Jacir, filmmaker and poet

Remi Kanazi, poet

Hannah Khalil, playwright

Firas Khoury, actor

Ramzi Maqdisi, actor

Ahmed Masoud, writer

Rakan Mayasi, director

Jowan Safadi, musician

Kareem Samara, musician
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 01:28:39 PM
Is Waters an an antisemite or a holocaust denier?

Did I say he was? He is part of BDS and some of them are.

Quote
Why would anybody bring into this discussion this area of debate?

Because ot shows the motivation of some of them in BDS.

Quote
Oh you can discount BDS cos of holocaust deniers and antisemites.........stands to reason...... :ROFL:

Not discount, but it can make you question the motivation of some of them. Add the fact that antisemitism rises in the wake of their activities and it doesn't paint them in a great light.

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 01:30:52 PM
I guess calling him a hypocrite is just a milder version of the same tactic as calling him an antisemite.

You can dismiss him and his views so very easily, justlikethat.

It is the 'Tommy Cooper' way of DISMISSING VIEWS WITHOUT ANY EFFORT.

No, it's not like calling him an anti-semite at all, I've never done that and don't believe he is. I'm calling him a hypocrite for calling out people paying Israel because of the oppression there, while playing other countries with oppressive regimes. That makes him a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 01:36:14 PM
It is really really really simple.

Either you support the oppressor or you don't.

There is a clear choice.

No, it's not that simple, and that is exactly the type of black and white thinking Yorke has objected to. It's possible to see fault on both sides which BDS fail to do.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 01:36:43 PM
How?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2015/02/22/boycott-israel-movement-stunts-the-palestinian-economy/#759abc6d1648 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2015/02/22/boycott-israel-movement-stunts-the-palestinian-economy/#759abc6d1648)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:42:21 PM

I know it's available, I posted a link to the interview where he says all that, and replied to Bara giving some of the information and referencing the link I got it from.


Your interview is from 2015.

There is a current one dealing with this case which you are commenting on now.

You'd think the current interview might be more relevant. But your interview at least was with one of those Jews who does not think Waters is notorious :ROFL: ; he admires him and shares his views.

Your link is actually a wonderful interview, full of info, conducted by a noble, very brave Israeli Jew too. Did you learn much?

Quote
 
He ignored their request by going to Israel to play after they'd asked him not to. Only once he got there did he have a change of heart about things,

Not so.
He did have a change of political awareness after but the point is he immediately engaged when asked not to go....changing the site of the gig to try to accommodate the Palestinians. Yorke doesn't engage and when he does he calls the people trying to engage ' fucking people' etc etc

The guy is an arse.

Quote
  And why should Yorke engage with those people? Who are they to ask? Yorke is obviously aware of them and disagrees with their methods, so why would he want to give them his time?

Who are they to ask?  :doh:


Does he care about their aims do you think?  :ROFL:


It is not his time they want but his engagement and to make a moral choice as to which side he is on; oppressor or oppressed?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:43:41 PM
Did I say he was? He is part of BDS and some of them are.

Because ot shows the motivation of some of them in BDS.

Not discount, but it can make you question the motivation of some of them. Add the fact that antisemitism rises in the wake of their activities and it doesn't paint them in a great light.

You really do swallow shit for fun don't you?

Is there any part of Israeli propaganda you don't believe ?

Is there no daft argument you don't take seriously?

You were talking specifically about Waters. What relevance do holocaust deniers and antisemites have to him?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 01:44:36 PM
It is not his time they want but his engagement and to make a moral choice as to which side he is on; oppressor or oppressed?

Are you talking about Waters or Yorke? Whose side was Waters on when he played Dubai?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:48:42 PM
No, it's not that simple, and that is exactly the type of black and white thinking Yorke has objected to. It's possible to see fault on both sides which BDS fail to do.

It is simple.

Are you with the oppressed or oppressor?

If you think there are two sides to Apartheid and racial supremacy please detail them for me.

If you think you can be neutral, seeing both sides you just give the oppressor the go ahead.

Choose.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:53:33 PM
No, it's not like calling him an anti-semite at all, I've never done that and don't believe he is. I'm calling him a hypocrite for calling out people paying Israel because of the oppression there, while playing other countries with oppressive regimes. That makes him a hypocrite.

You didn't understand the argument.

Call someone a name, hypocrite, antisemite, etc etc and you can dismiss his pov so easily.

It is a commonplace tactic to avoid the actual issues.

the issue here is Palestine.

Firstly which side do you take. Then, what to do about ending it.

If you call Waters, 'notorious' you have already chosen. Without even noticing. :ROFL:


Hasbara works. Until you learn
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 01:55:25 PM
Are you talking about Waters or Yorke? Whose side was Waters on when he played Dubai?

Dubai is a distraction.

We are talking about this issue. This case.

Don't get sidelined.

It is another tactic to not discuss the issue.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 01:55:49 PM
You really do swallow shit for fun don't you?

Is there any part of Israeli propaganda you don't believe ?

Is there no daft argument you don't take seriously?

You were talking specifically about Waters. What relevance do holocaust deniers and antisemites have to him?

"French BDS activists convicted of Holocaust denial

The accused claim they ‘accidentally’ posted an image comparing the Israeli army to Nazi Germany.

Two Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activists were convicted by a Montpellier court for incitement and Holocaust denial and fined 3,000 euros ($3,400), according to the French news site Libération.

Saadia Ben Fakha, 26, and Husein Abu-Zaid, 58, will also have to pay each of the civil parties that joined the case against them a symbolic one euro in damages: League of Human Rights (LDH), International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism (LICRA), France-Israel Association, Movement against Racism (MRAP), Lawyers without Borders, and the anti-Semitism watchdog BNVCA.

In August 2014 the members of BDS France 34, the local branch in Hérault, posted on social media an image comparing the IDF to Nazi Germany along with a caption saying "The Nazis and Zionists are two sides of the same coin," and that "What Hitler did to the Jews was done so that the world will sympathize with them and give them all the rights."

LDH, which often participates in BDS activities, discovered the Holocaust-denial post and requested that it be removed. It was only when LDH turned to the police that BDS condemned the post and denied any responsibility.

Holocaust denial has been illegal in France sine the 1990 Gayssot Act.

The two accused claimed that they accidentally clicked and shared the post without ever reading or seeing the image. BDS 34 supported its two activists and denied they were anti-Semitic, and even held a rally in their support.

However, LDH discovered that Ben Fakha also posted pictures of IDF soldiers along with inappropriate comments, and photos of herself making a reverse Nazi salute.

BDS then condemned LDH because they exposed the issue, and allowed “Zionist” groups (i.e French racism and anti-Semitism watchdogs groups) to join as plaintiffs."


It's relevant to Waters because he's actively and publicly backing the BDS campaign.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2015/02/22/boycott-israel-movement-stunts-the-palestinian-economy/#759abc6d1648 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2015/02/22/boycott-israel-movement-stunts-the-palestinian-economy/#759abc6d1648)

Oh God.......

BDS is supposedly damaging Palestinians and their economy.....

Spare me this garbage please.

If one is concerned for the Palestinian economy one would look to the real cause for its state and what hinders it and it really is not BDS.............

Seriously, suddenly people who don't give a shit about the desperate state of Palestinians blame BDS for their plight.

i'd need to look at the link for a better rebuttal but one is so suspicious of this kind of attack on BDS . It was blamed for losing jobs with Soda stream which was just propaganda.

With everything to do with Israel and I mean everything you have to be very careful about swallowing the shit provided for you by a very organised propaganda machine. You nearly drown in it without knowing you are even in a sea to start with, so pervasive is the garbage.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 02:11:20 PM
This is the difficulty for Radiohead.

Quote
  It's not proving possible for you to preserve your status as a politically progressive band and continue to be used by the Israeli government in this way.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 02:18:42 PM


It's relevant to Waters because he's actively and publicly backing the BDS campaign.

You mean ' smear by association '.

Another fucking tactic that really should be seen through by now......

Can we smear Yorke now by association..............he is associated clearly with Netanyahu and the government and their settler policy and the treatment of Palestinians.

We have a better case, too.

He even does not have anything to say about the Israelis making support for BDS in Israel a criminal offence.......

That Yorke really is a progressive isn't he? Nor that happening in the USA too......

Anybody would think both the USA and Israel fear it and think it is having an effect........

Oh well at least we know where Yorke stands.........with the oppressor.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: V8 on August 11, 2017, 02:34:52 PM
Dubai is a distraction.

We are talking about this issue. This case.

Don't get sidelined.

It is another tactic to not discuss the issue.

Who gave you permission to dictate which direction any discussion goes in here? Israel wasn't relevant to a discussion about Glastonbury until it was brought up, and now Waters is part of the discussion I think it's relevant to show what a hypocrite he is and how he  seems to only selectively care about the oppressed.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 02:35:59 PM
"French BDS activists convicted of Holocaust denial

The accused claim they ‘accidentally’ posted an image comparing the Israeli army to Nazi Germany.

Two Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activists were convicted by a Montpellier court for incitement and Holocaust denial and fined 3,000 euros ($3,400), according to the French news site Libération.

Saadia Ben Fakha, 26, and Husein Abu-Zaid, 58, will also have to pay each of the civil parties that joined the case against them a symbolic one euro in damages: League of Human Rights (LDH), International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism (LICRA), France-Israel Association, Movement against Racism (MRAP), Lawyers without Borders, and the anti-Semitism watchdog BNVCA.

In August 2014 the members of BDS France 34, the local branch in Hérault, posted on social media an image comparing the IDF to Nazi Germany along with a caption saying "The Nazis and Zionists are two sides of the same coin," and that "What Hitler did to the Jews was done so that the world will sympathize with them and give them all the rights."

LDH, which often participates in BDS activities, discovered the Holocaust-denial post and requested that it be removed. It was only when LDH turned to the police that BDS condemned the post and denied any responsibility.

Holocaust denial has been illegal in France sine the 1990 Gayssot Act.

The two accused claimed that they accidentally clicked and shared the post without ever reading or seeing the image. BDS 34 supported its two activists and denied they were anti-Semitic, and even held a rally in their support.

However, LDH discovered that Ben Fakha also posted pictures of IDF soldiers along with inappropriate comments, and photos of herself making a reverse Nazi salute.

BDS then condemned LDH because they exposed the issue, and allowed “Zionist” groups (i.e French racism and anti-Semitism watchdogs groups) to join as plaintiffs."


It's relevant to Waters because he's actively and publicly backing the BDS campaign.


Which particular Zionist site did you get this from?

You should know that the Zionist lobby in France is even worse than here and the laws in France are even more geared against those who dislike Israel's behaviour.

Just in that little bit we have the nonsense about the ' reverse Nazi salute' and this idea that what are called Zionist groups are nothing of the kind but are just 'French racism and anti-Semitism watchdogs'

As if  :ROFL:

Just for background, even readers of Haaretz understand some of the enormous bias in French society against Palestinian activists and how the law is supercharged against them.

If haaretz knows how come you don't?

The whole article is educative.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/1.574361 (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/1.574361)

Quote
  When Farida Trichine and 11 of her friends burst into a French supermarket in 2009 and began applying stickers with anti-Israel slogans to vegetables imported from the Jewish state, she expected to be escorted from the store by police.
What she didn’t expect was to be convicted of inciting racial hatred and slapped with a $650 fine.
Three months ago, a court in Colmar convicted the 12 activists under a French law that extended the definition of discrimination beyond the expected parameters of race, religion and sexual orientation to include members of national groups.
What Trichine, who was wearing a “boycott Israel” shirt during the protest, saw as a protected act of political speech was being treated by the authorities like a hate crime.



And so it goes.


Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 02:43:40 PM
Who gave you permission to dictate which direction any discussion goes in here? Israel wasn't relevant to a discussion about Glastonbury until it was brought up, and now Waters is part of the discussion I think it's relevant to show what a hypocrite he is and how he  seems to only selectively care about the oppressed.


Hypocrisy is not the worst crime, even were it proved.

So good of you to misrepresent Waters.

http://www.facebook.com/BDSNationalCommittee/videos/vb.115083011869901/1621084234603097/?type=2&theater (http://www.facebook.com/BDSNationalCommittee/videos/vb.115083011869901/1621084234603097/?type=2&theater)


He tackles this question in the recent interview; not your one from 2015. He does care about and actively work on other causes.

Even if he didn't one really is allowed to choose a cause. just one. Sometimes one cause takes up your time and energy. Sometimes one cause demands it and demands specialisation so you know the case in detail.

THAT applies particularly to Palestine so the Israeli propagandists and their fellow travellers don't get away with their shit on sHIT masquerading as some kind of flower bed scented with the finest Arabian spices.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 11, 2017, 02:55:46 PM
No, it's not like calling him an anti-semite at all, I've never done that and don't believe he is. I'm calling him a hypocrite for calling out people paying Israel because of the oppression there, while playing other countries with oppressive regimes. That makes him a hypocrite.


Are you aware of how Waters is being called an antisemite and how there is a film coming out to demonise him as such; because of his involvement in BDS.

So if you don't think he is where do you stand on this attack on him as one? Do you think it is just propaganda?

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgzPoAg03VQ#)

Quote
  Wish You Weren't Here - The Trailer; Film Coming Summer 2017
Ian Halperin
Ian Halperin
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28,802 views
   
Published on Jun 3, 2017
A shocking, explosive and most compelling film by award winning filmmaker/No.1 NY Times bestselling author Ian Halperin. Is Pink Floyd leader Roger Waters an anti-Semite? Is he the de-facto leader of BDS? Find out in this jaw dropping documentary about contemporary antisemitism combined with Waters rise to the forefront of the BDS movement, and his controversial journey attempting to get all artists to boycott Israel. Halperin, the son of a Holocaust survivor, traveled the globe for two years to get to the bottom of this incredible story, meeting up with and filming hundreds of experts from all faiths, including Ronald Lauder, Pope Francis, Haras Rafiq, Palestinian and Israeli leaders, U.S., British and French government officials, The Chief Rabbi of Ukraine, Alan Dershowitz and Dr. Charles Small. A riveting film that is a must view for everyone!!

Please visit [url=http://www.wedontneednorogerwaters.com]www.wedontneednorogerwaters.com[/url] ([url]http://www.wedontneednorogerwaters.com[/url])


One really does laugh at these propagandists. Do they think it will work? For all time?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 14, 2017, 03:31:27 PM
Who gave you permission to dictate which direction any discussion goes in here?


Eh? I did not know any permission had been asked nor that I had dictated any direction for the discussion. You have discussed what you wanted to.......

Quote
   Israel wasn't relevant to a discussion about Glastonbury until it was brought up, and now Waters is part of the discussion I think it's relevant to show what a hypocrite he is and how he  seems to only selectively care about the oppressed.


The thing is, his supposed hypocrisy is actually irrelevant; the call for Radiohead not to go to Israel is not dependant on Waters; the call was from Palestinians themselves and from lots of others apart from Waters.

Are you planning to accuse all of them of being hypocrites too, so your argument, apart from the antisemite and holocaust denier motif, carries the weight you have for your argument?

Is it just me, again, that thinks your arguments are poor quality?

Just for fun listen to the so called hypocrite.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7jcvfbLoIA#)

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 14, 2017, 03:58:05 PM
Quote
  If he had, then he wouldn't have written an open letter having a go at them. He tried to strong arm them into not playing there with suich a move, that's not accepting they are allowed a choice.

Firstly, he did not write the letter (he just signed it along with many others), secondly the letter was only published after numerous attempts by different people to  contact Radiohead about the issue. Thirdly, you call this strong arming.....did you read the letter in this looking into the matter you did? And Radiohead obviously had a choice........they went too.....and gained a lot of new friends in all the Israeli Embassies around the world and with all the Israeli propagandists like the ones you cited earlier.

They are now big fans. They quote him and are using his arguments  :ROFL: Who knew that Israel would make the most out of the band going to play in an arena built on one of the many Palestinian villages destroyed by the 'Israelis' in 1947-48. Lovely new found supporters of the band have been tweeting their fanhood. :ROFL:

For some reason  ::) Mark Regev seems to not have joined the fan club very ostentatiously. :ROFL:

https://artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2017/07/19/radiohead-gig-promoted-by-israeli-diplomatic-missions-around-the-world/

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 14, 2017, 04:06:08 PM
You can test for yourselves just how strong-arming the letter was.

https://artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2017/04/23/an-open-letter-to-radiohead/
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 14, 2017, 04:19:14 PM
Quote
  Add the fact that antisemitism rises in the wake of their ( meaning BDS) activities and it doesn't paint them in a great light.

Hook line and sinker. :clap:

You really do swallow the whole thing, pre-wrapped and with cutlery provided. Just have to bring your own napkin. Special delivery from sources close to the israeli propaganda expeditionary forces.

What you, surely, mean is that with BDS comes increased knowledge of what Israel actually does.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Q13.1 on August 14, 2017, 10:59:17 PM
I see vis is up to his usual. What a pratt. Wants to stake a claim and the only way vis can is off the back of others. It is so tedious to see.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 15, 2017, 02:11:29 PM
I see vis is up to his usual. What a pratt. Wants to stake a claim and the only way vis can is off the back of others. It is so tedious to see.

I often have difficulty understanding what you write and why.

What kind of claim do you think I am staking? On the back of whom?

As to tediousness, you are some kind of master of that, don't you think?

As to your motive for these off topic personal attacks could you explain why you do this, please.

Anyway, apart from the personal attack do you have anything relevant to write about the topic? Apart from something about Roger Waters being 'a cretin' and playing in Pyongyang.

If Waters is a cretin what does that make you? He is  a very successful, eminent rockstar of some pedigree as opposed to............
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Q13.1 on August 15, 2017, 11:04:04 PM
I often have difficulty understanding what you write and why.

What kind of claim do you think I am staking? On the back of whom?

As to tediousness, you are some kind of master of that, don't you think?

As to your motive for these off topic personal attacks could you explain why you do this, please.

Anyway, apart from the personal attack do you have anything relevant to write about the topic? Apart from something about Roger Waters being 'a cretin' and playing in Pyongyang.

If Waters is a cretin what does that make you? He is  a very successful, eminent rockstar of some pedigree as opposed to............

Thanks for the reply vis. Waters is one sad prick who thro his toys out out of the pram which led to the ending of the floyd, even tho it was well passed its sell by dare. He played in the zionist entity didn't he? You condone him for it? Why is PFF your latest friend?

If you want to rage about the Palestinian cause HowTF can you do it on a thread about Glasto 2017?
just what is the connection?  Hence my reference to you doing your usual. And you condone waters for performing there?
in the entity not glasto. Just where the hell are you coming from?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 17, 2017, 12:59:50 PM
Thanks for the reply vis. Waters is one sad prick who thro his toys out out of the pram which led to the ending of the floyd, even tho it was well passed its sell by dare.

Relevance to thread was there none.

Instead of getting answers to the questions asked,
Quote
What kind of claim do you think I am staking? On the back of whom?

Quote
As to your motive for these off topic personal attacks could you explain why you do this, please.

 I got this........

Quote
   He played in the zionist entity didn't he? You condone him for it?

He did play in Israel, yes. In 2006. Radiohead before this, I'm told, last played in Israel in 2000 so to go back now after all that time obviously was significant huh? A big deal.

Who says I condone it? He is free to play when and where he likes.  The best thing about him playing there was he learnt and has acted on what he learnt, since.

The best thing about Radiohead going there now is the publicity about Palestine, especially thru BDS.

Quote
  Why is PFF your latest friend?

How do you think up the crap you write? :ROFL:

Quote
  If you want to rage about the Palestinian cause HowTF can you do it on a thread about Glasto 2017?
just what is the connection? 

It is a logical development from how the thread went. Radiohead were the topic, barky pointed out Yorke was a knob, V8 decided holocaust denial and antisemitism should get an airing and said BDS was 'a questionable organisation' on the back of him looking into the topic ( howling laughter)........... etc etc so what would you expect?

How could anybody just listen to this blatant vicious propaganda without pointing it out. And laughing at V8's pretensions to knowing anything about what he is talking about.

He thinks there is equivalence calling someone an antisemite and holocaust denier and calling someone an Israeli supporter, depending on which side you are favourable to. One is so so so so damaging an accusation and the other neutral and actually often regarded as something to be proud of but V8 USED THE SUPPOSED EQUIVALENCE as part of his argument.

Quote
  Anybody who opposes Israel is automatically labelled an antisemite and preferably labelled a holocaust denier.

It is the shortest cut to deny them a voice.


Quote
  And it works both ways, anyone who doesn't oppose Israel is labelled an Israel sympathiser and supporter of all the shit going on there, for the same reasons.

The argument is bogus.


Another supposed equivalence was that Waters played in Israel in 2006 so surely that means Radiohead should be able to play there in 2017.

Doesn't anybody realise a lot has happened since 2005? the situation is not the same. There might have been an excuse for being pig ignorant then; there is none now.



Another bogus one was about playing in oppressive states  and Dubai was cited as if Israel and Dubai are comparable in oppression. They are not.

And if you think they are, why isn't anyone who thinks that, ever having a go at Captainfly for working there?

V8 always uses hypocrisy as his go to argument; does anybody think there is any hypocrisy here, not even thinking badly of Captainfly working there but being appalled that Waters would.

Q, you must have views on that and V8 must too........


I love this forum. :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 17, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
V8 still has not replied to the query about what he thinks of the those, unlike him, who think Waters is an antisemite.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on August 21, 2017, 10:52:22 AM

It's relevant to Waters because he's actively and publicly backing the BDS campaign.


It is.  The issues with the BDS campaign and antisemitism are well documented and why people would want to be associated with this KNOWING these issues exist should raise some pertinent questions to those who are interested.

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 21, 2017, 11:40:13 AM
It is.  The issues with the BDS campaign and antisemitism are well documented and why people would want to be associated with this KNOWING these issues exist should raise some pertinent questions to those who are interested.



Who are they well documented by? V8 linked to some articles on this topic and blindly accepted them without any examination.

The Victoria Derbyshire article clearly shows "Some Jewish students in the UK say growing support for BDS has fuelled a rise in anti-Semitism on campuses."

and the other states

Quote
In my work as a pro-Israel activist and philanthropist I’m often asked: is BDS really anti-Semitic? Does it really lead to an increase in anti-Semitism?

If you look at the evidence — and examine the roots, goals, and strategy of BDS — you see that the answer is an unequivocal yes!

This latter article is by Adam Milstein who one really should already be aware of if one followed  Palestinian affairs even a tiny bit.

He is well known for being a serious and serial propagandist.

From wikipedia

Quote
  In June 2015, Milstein joined with Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban to organize the inaugural Campus Maccabees summit.[21] The event brought together more than 50 organizations to "harness the full might of the pro-Israel community to defeat hate groups spreading anti-Semitism and lies about the Jewish State on America’s college campuses.

You must know about these guys and what they do and how much they spend doing it.

So we have 'stand with us' and other hasbara organisations with their deliberate, well financed, widespread attempts to delegitimise BDS being taken by V8 AND TEQUILA AS STATEMENTS OF UNCONTESTED AND INCONTESTABLE ' FACT'.

They are not. :ROFL: They are part of an Israeli campaign against Palestine.

In this thread V8 has unequivocally said he does not think Waters is an antisemite. Milstein et al have a huge campaign saying he is an antisemite.

Does anybody think this might make V8 think his own observation about Waters is wrong and Milstein's is correct. V8 after all cited Milstein earlier as  his evidence. :ROFL:

Which is it? Is V8 correct or is Milstein?  One of you is wrong. Why the variance? Why is Milstein saying what he says?

The Israeli Government  and others have put a lot of effort into delegitimising BDS. It works easily with some.

Others might question it, especially with such a blatant case as this. Is Waters an antisemite? Are you with Milstein or V8?

And why is there this discrepancy? :ROFL: :ROFL:

Quote
   Adam Milstein - IAC Retweeted
 Guy Gilady 🇮🇱‏Verified account @GuyGilady  Jul 14
More
 #Miami says NO to #RogerWaters message of #racism and #antisemitism.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on August 21, 2017, 11:58:30 AM
A post full of antisemitic tropes and you expect a serious reply?

You are a great example of the hate most sane people have problems with the BDS campaign,  and amply display the hate that follows it around.

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 22, 2017, 12:40:43 PM
Tequila, which side of the divide are you on regarding whether Roger Waters is or is not an antisemite?

Do you agree with V8
Quote
No, it's not like calling him an anti-semite at all, I've never done that and don't believe he is

or Adam Milstein and friends that he is?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 22, 2017, 12:42:21 PM
A post full of antisemitic tropes and you expect a serious reply?



Which particular statements are you objecting to? Be specific.
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 25, 2017, 02:46:24 PM
It is.  The issues with the BDS campaign and antisemitism are well documented and why people would want to be associated with this KNOWING these issues exist should raise some pertinent questions to those who are interested.




Whose word should I take seriously? Someone I admire as a great and brave and honourable Jewish Israeli thoughtful guy, who V8 has already linked to in this thread, or Tequila nic whom I have nothing but contempt for?
 Difficult choice!  :ROFL:

If someone contradicts the prevalent Israeli narrative, the easiest method to get that view dismissed out of hand is use the simple tactic of calling out 'antisemite'. How the brazen tactic works so successfully for so many is a mystery.


Gideon Levy: Israelis must stand up and say: 'We're all BDS supporters'
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKm3WwFTboc#)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 25, 2017, 02:57:58 PM
I know it is useless TO TRY TO GET ANY ENGAGEMENT ON THIS but......
Quote
   Last night the Ha’aretz columnist Gideon Levy gave a thrilling speech describing the brutal tyranny of the occupation, the inevitability of the one-state solution, and the necessity of boycott and sanctions to cause Israel to change its conduct at the Greenburgh Town Hall in Westchester County, N.Y.

It was a thrilling speech, depressingly excellent in its content I would say. It started dramatically and never lost its potency. It was also, now that I think of it, mercifully short as Levy said what needed to be said in about 25 minutes, and this under constant attack, pressure from the field of well-experienced hecklers whose goal it was to disrupt the entire proceedings.

Levy cuts a fine figure in his blue sports jacket and jeans, his attire brightened by a red scarf hanging open around his neck which he wore when speaking. The disrupters, essentially 5 or 6 women sprinkled throughout the audience, had already made their presence known, and in kind of warm-up for Levy, had tried to unhinge Suhail Khaliliah and Aleen Masoud’s remarks, constantly interrupting both, with the event’s chair and peacekeepers unable to contain their outbursts. Frankly, in most other settings, after the first intemperate – and openly racist comments – the likes of these would have been and should have been thrown out of the room on their ample butts, but they weren’t. As a result, they gained confidence and their interruptions became more frequent.

In the midst of this growing chaos, Gideon Levy got up to speak. One of the meshugginah’s stood in the back of the room with a post that read “Levy = Hate.” Nice welcome, no? To a standing ovation from most in the room, peppered with outbursts from the meshuggenehs, Levy  began his remarks, drawing the audience’s attention to that poster, noting that it was true that he “hated” certain things. And then with a clarity and calm – that kind of controlled rage – that typifies his many writings on the Occupation itself, he let loose with the first of several well-aimed salvos. He began:

I would like to thank the distinguished lady in the back who is holding the poster. There it is. [Everyone in the audience turned round to look]. It’s one of the most precise and reliable posters I’ve ever seen in my life. Levy = Hate. Yes, I hate the Occupation; I hate racism; I hate ignorance and above all I hate the brainwashing which makes those ignorant people take such positions.



read all about it
http://fpif.org/haaretz-journalist-gideon-levy-reviled-at-new-york-bds-appearance/ (http://fpif.org/haaretz-journalist-gideon-levy-reviled-at-new-york-bds-appearance/)

view the footage

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUKajBuM1k#)

FULL LINK http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/facing-hecklers-gideon/ (http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/facing-hecklers-gideon/)

Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on August 25, 2017, 04:44:37 PM
You should take more interest in Israel.

Israel influences our laws.........attempting to make support for BDS illegal in the States, even......trying to change our law on antisemitism......but it goes MUCH wider.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.807941 (http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.807941)

Here is another fabulously instructive noble Israeli Jew. Listen to him.

Europe Must Not Buy What Israel Is Selling to Combat Terror
Israel has managed to turn 50 years of Palestinian resistance to occupation into a cottage industry, and is now selling the concept of a police state to the world


Quote
  What Israel is urging onto the Europeans – and Americans, Canadians, Indians, Mexicans, Australians and anyone else who will listen – is nothing less than an entirely new concept of a state, the Security State.

What is a Security State? Essentially, it is a state that places security above all else, certainly above democracy, due process of law and human rights, all of which it considers “liberal luxuries” in a world awash in terrorism. Israel presents itself, no less, than the model for countries of the future. You Europeans and others should not be criticizing us, say Katz and Netanyahu, you should be imitating us. For look at what we have done. We have created a vibrant democracy from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River that provides its citizens with a flourishing economy and personal security – even though half the population of that country are terrorists (i.e., non-citizen Palestinians living in isolated enclaves of the country). If we can achieve that, imagine what we can offer those of you threatened by terrorist attacks?
In a brilliant shift in imaging, Israel has managed to turn 50 years of Palestinian resistance to occupation into a cottage industry. By labeling it “terrorism,” it has not only delegitimized the Palestinian struggle but has transformed the occupied territories in a laboratory of counterinsurgency and population control, the cutting edges of both foreign wars and domestic repression. It has transformed tactics of control and their accompanying weapons of surveillance systems into marketable products. No wonder, as Netanyahu constantly reminds us, “the world” loves Israel. From China to Saudi Arabia, from India to Mexico, from Eritrea to Kazakhstan, Israel supplies the means by which repressive regimes control their restless peoples.



(http://images.jpost.com/image/upload/t_Article2016_ControlFaceDetect/391304)
An everyday story
The EU wants Israel not to be so vile. ::)

Quote
  Israel must rebuild the two modular Palestinian schools it demolished, the European Union said as it condemned the IDF actions against illegal Palestinian and Beduin construction in Area C of the West Bank.

“Every child has the right to safe access to education and states have an obligation to protect, respect and fulfill this right, by ensuring that schools are inviolable safe spaces for children,” the EU said on Thursday in a statement put out by its offices in Jerusalem and Ramallah.



It spoke up after the Civil Administration demolished a modular kindergarten on Sunday in the Beduin herding village of  Badu al-Baba near the town of al-Eizariya just outside of Jerusalem. On Tuesday it took down a modular elementary school in the Palestinian village of Jubbet ad-Dib close to Bethlehem.

Both schools were built with EU funding, but without permits, which are difficult for Palestinians to obtain from the Civil Administration.

Parent Fadia Awash, who also head the Woman’s Society from the nearby Palestinian town of Beit Tamir said the school had been built on private Palestinian property. It was designed to service local children who otherwise were walking three kilometers to the nearest school.

On Wednesday and Thursday, many of the 80 school children originally designated to the school arrived at the site anyway for class.

A tent has been placed on one of the cement slabs where the modular classroom had stood.

Awash said their former school had refused to register them. As of Thursday afternoon, she said, no alternative school had been found for the children.

The EU called on Israel to “halt demolitions and confiscations of Palestinian houses and property in accordance with its obligations as an occupying power under international humanitarian law, and to cease the policy of settlement construction and expansion, of designating land for exclusive Israeli use and of denying Palestinian development.”

“The EU missions in Jerusalem and Ramallah call on the Government of Israel to return the confiscated equipment and structures,” it added.

Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah also condemned the demolitions explaining that the IDF had already confiscated equipment used to structures and arrested several humanitarian workers.

“Denying the community’s children their right to education, not to mention other fundamental rights, is a deliberate policy of the Israeli authorities to pressure Palestinian communities to leave, in order to confiscate their land and build additional settlements.,” Hamdallah said.

On August 9, the Israeli Civil Administration confiscated solar panels used to power a kindergarten and primary school in the nearby Bedouin community of Abu Nawwar, he said.

Such actions are against international law, Hamdallah said. He called on the United Nations to force Israel to halt such activity.

According to the UN Israel has demolished 192 illegal Palestinian and Beduin structures in Area C of the West Bank this year. Last year it took down 875 such structures, many of which were modular.


Watch out for the antisemites, though :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on September 11, 2017, 03:09:48 PM
It is such a shame nobody much is interested in Palestine/Israel except to shout "antisemite" at those who are.
Especially when it is exposed that they simply parrot the propaganda provided for them, even when they actually disagree with it. V8, that is you. :ROFL: As to Tequila he seems to think , from another thread on the topic

Quote
  Like Israel Palestine could make unilateral decisions for example like declaring it's borders and drawing them on a map.  But as we know this will never happen as they want to get rid of Israel.

Where does one begin with this level of ignorance?
Israel has not declared its borders for starters........... :ROFL:

Make it up as you go along, why dontcha?



Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on September 11, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
If one was following events in Israel one would be highly amused.

Netanyahu Jr is making a name for himself.

He thinks Black Lives Matter are the real enemy AND NOT THE OPENLY ANTISEMITIC Alt Right Spencer and friends, for example.

So, sometimes the openly antisemitic get a free pass, if it suits. :ROFL:

(Trump is super popular in Israel, apparently)

Tactics and strategy play the major roles in who gets called out as an antisemite.

Did you not know this?

Two British Jewish Organisations have publicly fallen out over the extent of antisemitism here. Anyone followed that?

So much happening in Israel, currently.............anyone following any of it?
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on September 11, 2017, 03:23:37 PM
New York Times gave space to Roger Waters...........whatever next?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/07/opinion/roger-waters-congress-silencing-advocates.html?mcubz=0&_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/07/opinion/roger-waters-congress-silencing-advocates.html?mcubz=0&_r=0)
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on September 11, 2017, 07:33:28 PM
Abdel Bari Atwan and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/09/10/abdel-bari-atwan-and-the-palestine-solidarity-campaign/ (http://hurryupharry.org/2017/09/10/abdel-bari-atwan-and-the-palestine-solidarity-campaign/)

It's a sad read and the hate is palpable.

'During a question and answer session, Ben Grabiner, LSE’s antiracism officer, spoke about the LSE’s antisemitism policy: “Antisemitism includes but is not limited to accusation of Jewish control of the world, government, media as well as blaming Jews as a collective for imagined or real atrocities.

“This evening, Mr Atwan, you’ve pointed at Jewish students and said: ‘You’ve bombed Gaza’. You’ve used the term Jewish and Zionist lobby interchangeably, that is also antisemitic, and you’ve published pictures of the star of David interspersed with Nazi propaganda.”

In response, a female member of the audience shouted at Mr Grabiner: “You are a Nazi!” '

Some will attack the source but it is well documented.

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on September 12, 2017, 03:51:53 PM
Abdel Bari Atwan and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign

[url]http://hurryupharry.org/2017/09/10/abdel-bari-atwan-and-the-palestine-solidarity-campaign/[/url] ([url]http://hurryupharry.org/2017/09/10/abdel-bari-atwan-and-the-palestine-solidarity-campaign/[/url])

It's a sad read and the hate is palpable.



What is really depressing is that you swallow this junk uncritically and spread it.

The link begins

Quote
 

The self-styled Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) is actually a hate campaign. 


It is nothing of the kind.

That you just uncritically believe this is telling. Why don't you investigate for yourself and find out instead of just being this daft parrot?

Next we are told this about Bari Atwan

Quote
  In particular, proponents of the most extreme violence are very welcome at its events. Come speak to us!

The latest is the journalist Abdel Bari Atwan. He will speak at a PSC event in Brighton on 14 September. Note how the PSC advertise the meeting:


He has also said ’Palestinians tried the “peace process”…now we should go back to square one, which means resistance’
 


Blimey! Is he to be condemned out of hand for that? And PSC too?

Habibi.......working for upharry'sarse...then tells us how Bari Atwan would be happy if Iranian bombs rained down on Israel..........you'd have thought this thought might be natural for someone born in Gaza and I expect but have not checked the interview was during one of the regular Israeli bombardments on Gaza..........

Did you take any of this into account?

Next PSC is condemned for meeting with Hamas...........

No need for any thought on that.....anybody meeting with Hamas on any occasion is damned....stands to reason..... no enquiry required.......

Next Corbyn gets it I think........

Paragraphs of demonization........all taken for objective reasonable comment by Tequila of course....

So very depressing........ time after time Tequila takes this site as his views.........as his own rational appraisal and source of knowledge....

NO ENQUIRY INTO WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE AND WHY THEY SPREAD THIS....

Bari Atwan is a longstanding and knowledgeable commentator on the Middle East....if you look him up he has dozens of recent articles about current events there....he is going to talk to at most 100 people in Brighton....but we get this level of attack on him and PSC and anyone else who goes in for this 'hate' also known as not swallowing all the pro Israeli propaganda.....

Eventually this demonization will be seen for what it is...... surely?........

NOT VERY LONG AGO ALMOST EVERYONE WAS MUCH LIKE TEQUILA IN HIS GULLIBILITY AND LACK OF CRITICAL FUNCTIONS.

now not so much :ROFL: :ROFL:

Even the British Government Officials in Israel are sending messages back to London super critical about Israel's treatment of Palestinians...........a freedom of information enquiry provided that info

ho hum
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on September 12, 2017, 04:00:08 PM
As I said some will simply attack the source.

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: Visitor on September 12, 2017, 04:28:21 PM
As I said some will simply attack the source.


:ROFL:
I was disputing the accuracy of the information and wondering why you are so uncritical, ill informed and such a dull parrot of a child.

As to the source..... well as I keep telling you look up who is it? David Taube? is that him? is he the guy behind it all? What is his beef exactly? :ROFL:

You boast about how you know where all the meat you eat comes from but are this indifferent to all the crap you are feeding your mind and the source of that :nooo:

Don't fret, you are super confident you know what you are talking about and that is all that matters. PMSL
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on September 12, 2017, 04:54:52 PM
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-jewish-chronicle/20170310/281801398760823 (https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-jewish-chronicle/20170310/281801398760823)

https://www.jhrw.com/single-post/2017/07/14/Mick-Napier-Scottish-PSC-Found-Guilty-of-Aggravated-Trespass-Against-Jewish-Shop (https://www.jhrw.com/single-post/2017/07/14/Mick-Napier-Scottish-PSC-Found-Guilty-of-Aggravated-Trespass-Against-Jewish-Shop)

Just hateful and criminal.

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on September 12, 2017, 04:55:46 PM
Nothing to see here.

https://antisemitism.uk/caa-investigation-exposes-bigotry-within-palestine-solidarity-campaign-caa-calls-for-unions-to-disaffiliate/

Nic
Title: Re: Glastonbury 2017
Post by: tequila_nic on September 12, 2017, 04:58:55 PM
But this is funny

http://fathomjournal.org/the-israeli-visa-law-and-other-own-goals-in-the-bds-wars/ (http://fathomjournal.org/the-israeli-visa-law-and-other-own-goals-in-the-bds-wars/)

Nic